Just a quick question relating to Hotaru's feat "flame on". i can't seem to find what the "Fire 1/2" does within the rules a have.
If anyone could shed some light or point out where this information is i would be grateful!
Thanks
Ash
Just a quick question relating to Hotaru's feat "flame on". i can't seem to find what the "Fire 1/2" does within the rules a have.
If anyone could shed some light or point out where this information is i would be grateful!
Thanks
Ash
The rules for Fire and On Fire.
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
Awesome, nothing better then a fiery kick to the face.
Flame on!
She may have just earned that rice value;)
just to check I'm getting this-
Hotaru casts the feat, giving her both offensive and defensive triggers of Zero, and engages a model in melee, if she both successfully attacks and defends in the subsequent melee does my model gain 2 Fire(2) counters? so then takes 2 damage that end phase, and an additional 2 the following end phase?
secondly- how do armour and tough affect fire?
Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
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The trait entry should read "Fire (X/Y)", I suppose?
So, let me get this straight:
A hit with a Fire 1/2 weapon gives the target two Fire (1) markers, and if hit twice it'd have four Fire (1) markers. One of these is removed in the end phase, causing one wound (as a Fire (1) marker is removed.
Right?
I follow the rules of bushido. I am a bushi.
@Henrix has the right understanding and (X/Y) added to the LIving Rules, good spot Henrix.
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
Excellent, that cleared up my confusion also.
I was fantastic! And it was a bloody good laugh!
Cult 1 - Savage Wave 0
http://www.hittingonadouble1.blogspot.co.uk/
thanks, I got the X/Y the wrong way round, (doh) although if it is affected by armour and tough the Temple players may wish I was right, as it stands she's as much use as a chocolate katana against a Kairai/Oni/any member of the prefecture:),
Does this also mean the most wounds she can cause on a single model ever is 6, (if she flames someone at the start of the game) regardless of how many tokens she places?
Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
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Are there a lot of fire 1 counters? If the full Prefecture army runs around burning for the full game but unharmed its sounds a bit strange.
No quite, as shes active we'll assume she has the iniaitive. So she hits the target gets 2, Fire (1) tokens. She then successfully defends and so the target gets another 2, Fire (1) tokens. During the end phase remove one of the tokens and mark a wound, leaving the model with 3 Fire (1) Tokens.
Fire ignores Armour and Toughness traits.
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
and she's back on the things to avoid radar:)
Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
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You mean she's back at the top of the shopping list, right?
I follow the rules of bushido. I am a bushi.
no no, just on the 'things Ikimjo will be looking at very closely from a distance' list:)
Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
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So its basically poison with possibility to rid of it?
Correct it is a very similar type of game effect, although Poison doesn't ignore Toughness and you can't get rid of it.
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
Just for clarification, both models (btw the burning model) must be free to put the fire out or only the helping model?
Edited for detail:
Does this term: which is unenaged and not in an enemy ZoC refers to both? So can a model with burning tokens in close combat put the fire out itself?
I think it is that only one model spends the simple action - either the one on fire or his buddy next to him - to get rid of the fire.
http://rudders-modellife.blogspot.com
No only the model performing the simple action. Has to be not in BtB
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
Regarding the previous answers, lets imagine Hotaru has charge Jin, that was rested.
Hotaru succeds both defense And atq, thus jin has 4 fire markers lev 1.
Hotau is exhausted, but Jin can NOT remove any fire marker, has she is sill in BtB, unless a freind come to help her, so she will take an additionnal wound at the end of the turn.
Is this correct?
Tks
Unless the fire markers are removed then during the end phase and she will recieve a wound equal to its value. In hotarus case 1.
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
tks
Additionnal question:
Where is the point in putting someone on flames then?
Regarding the low cost of removing the markers, and the low damage they deliver, i dont see the use for the girl.
Am i missing something?
Depends on how you use her. Keep her for your last activation, and hit the enemy when they're exhausted, and there's nothing they can do to prevent the damage.
In any case, you're hitting them, which tires, then they're obliged to either take damage, exhaust the model to extinguish flames, or tire/exhaust another model to extinguish the flames.
It's basically a way of burning (pun intended) their activations.
Except that, for one damage, are you sure that you will waist an activation? Not sure i would
Tks anyway
One damage or one activation, per turn, until all tokens are removed. The choice between wasting an activation or taking a point of damage is quite easy in a one off situation.
But if you've got a number of fire tokens on you, you'd be more inclined to waste an activation putting them out.
And how much did she hit you for in the first place? Do you have only a few wounds left? Are you still engaged with her?
Consider using her in co-ordination with models that have "Throw". Slap some fire tokens on someone, next turn attempt to throw them back with Yumi, then Hotaru is free to go and slap some fire tokens on someone else, without having to waste an activation on disengaging, attack with yumi again, rinse, repeat. I'm pretty sure that spreading a bunch of fire tokens on multiple models will increase your opponent's stress levels no end ;).
The level of her usefulness is situational, as it should be for 7 points! Is she as good as Kenko? No. Does she cost the same as him? Certainly not!
Other things in her favour: Monk/ability to benifit from Ichiro's "faith" aura. Decent stats. Ki generation. 7 points. She's not devestating of course, but useful? I certainly think so.
Ok, your convincing!
Tks for the detailed answer
Good luck playing her ;).
Mertaal has lots of good points, he's pretty much nailed how to use her, I would also add she particularly excels against low wound creatures like bakemono, rats and children, where (if lucky) she can put enough flame markers on them in one combat round to kill them (eventually) if they don't put them out.
Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
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Agree great summary there by Mertaal. I think the another thing people miss is the Defensive nature of Flame on so that she can tie up models and damage them for later turns. But the main point its always best to think about in Bushido is that your only getting 12 actions at most (sometimes even 10) with a model and its how to best maximize your actions and prevent the opponent from doing so with their better models. Having to put out fire or lose X actions from being dead is pretty big.
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
Well, tks to all for your answers, even if i wont actually be playing her, but suffering her on the other side.... :-(
I m really not convince.
I ll try Hotaru because her mini is very cool and because her cost is quite low But
- Her power is quite useless: 1dommage each turn maximum is not very dangerous. Most enemy would not spend an action to put out the fire. As the game last only 6 turn it represent only few PV lost in general
- Even if H could set on fire many time on a model this enemy wont be more severely wounded that if he was burn once. For me it appears as if the ignite model cook slowly…!
Suggestions:
=> Modification of Hotaru feat:
Fire (2/1)
OR
=>Modification of state “on fire”
On Fire: If a model has Fire markers on its Profile card it is considered On Fire. During the End Phase remove half of Fire markers with the highest values, the model suffers a number of wounds equal to the sum of Fire marker values, these wounds ignore the Armour and Toughness traits. A model with Fire markers on its Profile card, or a friendly model in BtB which is unenaged and not in an enemy ZoC, may spend a Simple action to remove all Fire markers from a models Profile card.
In the same time the Temple as already many good fighters so it is perhaps not good to improve Hotaru. But, on my side, I would have like a more expensive model with better feat
It's one of those things. Sure, you could have gone with a much harder way to get rid of the flame tokens like, "Models on Fire take the sum of their Fire Tokens amounts every turn unless they spend a complex action and are placed prone to remove them (aka - stop, drop, and roll)" But then she'd be a 10-point+ model. It's all about game balance and the rice-point that GTS wanted for Hotaru. I wouldn't be surprised if originally there were higher-point-cost versions (or equivalents) in the playtest notes. I bet there were discussions of "Hmm... if we keep the ability like that, we'll have to up her cost. But since we don't want to do that, let's look at toning down the fire."
It's also a difference in our mental pictures of what the fire tokens represent. I'm sure, like most people (myself included), when one thinks "fire tokens" you think of some guy fully engulfed in flames that stretch up another 3' into the air above their heads as they burn. Instead, Hotarus as she is is a bit more like you've got a bit of a small burning patch on your shirt sleeve or pants leg or something that you just need to smack a little bit and put out.
Either way, she's a model I plan on getting, for looks alone. I'm just saving up a couple releases worth of models so I can get them all at once for Temple and Prefecture.
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Hotaru is waay overpriced, i mentioned it in another threat. Lets see the comparison with Riku (the Worst Monk compared to Kenko or Yumi):
For 1 Additional Rice we have 1 Combat dice (!!!!), 1 extra Life Point, no drawbacks (stuborn), another positive trait (parry), and a trigger 4. YES! all of this if you pay 1 additional rice.
The only point to include her is for the uncancelable dmg versus armor/toughtness or against the Large rat Swarm. Also remember that her UNIQUE trait in game (the flame) cost 3 Ki...
She is not useless, but is low. She doesn't make justice to the model awesomeness >_<
Sorry my poor english >_< Bushido FTW !!
Well actually, the mini is not quite reflecting this. Or maybe the 3m flame trail she is leaving behind her is someone else's? :-)
I tried to make different lists for the temple. Their are so much ways to deal dmg with the temple, that I cannot recruit Hotaru. Kenko, Kitsune, Gorilla will be more dangerous.
Kitsune with leap + aware + sixth sens is a real pain.
Gorilla with leap is really dangerous.
Kenko has just too many ki feat.
I prefer to recruit them, and then take ki feat casters / defense models.
So sad, cause the mini is so amazing :(
Hotaru is a bit hard to deduce in her effectiveness, but there is something a few people aren't quite catching onto here. She has a (0) defense trigger that causes damage-over-time!
Here's an example:
Hotaru engages a target. Before she attacks, she spends 3-Ki to use "Flame On" (as its a free action she can take on either her turn or the opponent's turn). She then commits 1 dice to attack, and 2 dice to defense.
Now her opponent is in a predicament. They can choose to commit all their dice to defense to prevent Hotaru hitting them (sensible in many cases), but in doing so they will have commited no dice to attack meaning Hotaru is likely going to win her defense, which in turn will trigger her (0) "Flame On" and cause the target to gain 2-Flame Tokens. As they have just been attacked, the target is now Tired (at the least) and will have to decide if they spend their last action dousing their flames or suffer an unblockable burn in the end phase.
Thus, if Hotaru is successful in defending against her foe - SHE DAMAGES THEM!!
Alternatively lets consider the opposite. The opponent commits dice to attack Hotaru, loosing some edge in defense. As Hotaru has attacked first, should she successfully hit and the target has no Armor/ Toughness, they will suffer at least 1 Wound from the attack (unless Hotaru had a SL of 0) PLUS 2-Fire Tokens. Should the target not get those flames out, they will have taken 3 wounds by the end of the following turn. Given most humanoids only have 6-wounds, thats half the model's life gone in two turns and from only one attack!
And then there is the worst case scenario. Hotaru wins both her attack AND defense. The target now has 4-Fire tokens on them, and has taken some damage from the attack Hotaru has hit them with, AND is Tired from dealing with the attack. With that level of an inferno, the target would very much like to put those flames out but that will use up its other action.
Lets also consider the target on fire as well. Should they give up an action to put out the flames, they will go from being Tired (since Hotaru has attacked them) to Exhausted. They won't want to do that as Hotaru has only attacked once, meaning she can attack again (and this time it will be on an Exhausted target). And given "Flame On" remains active until the end phase, if she DOES hit the target again, they will be ignited again. Meaning their action to douse the flames will have been wasted.
So the enemy is forced instead to try and attack Hotaru. Thats also not exactly a good idea because she can commit her dice-ppol to defense and place ANOTHER 2 Fire tokens on the attacker if she parries the attack.
So the enemy can then choose to try and run. But even THIS isn't the best of ideas because (again) Hotaru is still "Flamed On" and she can commit her dice pool completely to attack. If she hits, the target has not only just failed to run away, but it has still gained +2 Fire Tokens, AND taken physical damage from Hotaru hitting them.
Then there is the case where she is attacked by multiple foes. Hotaru commits all her dice to defense. For each successfull attack she avoids, she puts 2-Fire tokens on the enemy that attacked her. In the end phase of that turn, those enemies will each take 1 Wound.
Agreeably Hotaru isn't a powerful damage dealer. But the Monks are not about dealing damage so much as they are about keeping their foes occupied and exhausted. Hotaru's job isn't to take enemies down, but to set them on fire and force them to either take damage or give up their activation to avoid the damage. She's an aggressive tar-pit designed to occupy your enemy while your other models complete their objectives.
Personally at 7-rice, I think she does her job just fine!
I think you missunderstood this part of the rules.
No he is correct, Hotaru gain the offensive and Defensive triggers (0), meaing if she successfully Defends and/or Attacks the Enemy model will get 2 Fire (1) Markers.
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
Yes, but does she successfully defend if the opponent does not attack her ?
Yes
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
Absolutely. Allocating no dice to Defence or Attack just means that they get zero result.
No Attack dice vs. Yumi means that if she rolls a '2' on Defence she'll push you away.
I follow the rules of bushido. I am a bushi.