So just starting a general sort of "Tactics and other such things" about the Prefecture of Ryu.
I just recently got my models in and have Daisuke and the Dragon headed on their way here. Currently I've got the starter and Mikio. I love how the faction feels like a whole. Other factions seem a bit more like disparate parts that happen to make a faction while ours really is a faction. Hanso telling Jin and Yoshio to move around and attack is a good time had by all. Mikio I'm still getting the exact hang of. He seems good, but fitting him in has been rough compared to Minuro, who fits in perfectly with the aforementioned group.
Adding a healer and the (as yet unknown by me what he does) dragon to the group will get me some more options. I'm not entirely sold on the ninja or the Chun-Li twin. What have you guys done with them and made them work?
Ninja and chun-li admittedly fit the samurai theme as well as E-honda does, but theyre both very nice.
Their advantage is in delivering more ranged attack power to your army, while being much more mobile than "captain cumbersome".
Chun-li can buy range for her fireball, walk forward and throw one to potshot people (no reloading is great stuff) and then throw another while at a better range to try and grill people.
Ninja can either throw a heap of sharp things at squishy targets (I like the cult's orphan and woman for examples of models she can really put the hurt on) or assault them, throwing sharp stuff on the way in. She also provides Bonnie Tyler's feat, which is nice. Turning an exhausted model backwards to let someone else surprise it is nice stuff.
I find that the ninja works well at completing the objectives, particularly the messenger scenario due to her camouflage, allowing her to sneek around without being targetted. Sadly I have only just got the other waves and only used Mikio. At first he was particularly troublesome at getting the most out of him. I now use him to move opponents models. This either clears a path for one of my model's to slip through or allows another to target the moved model.
So, as a faction, we sort of have the "ranged advantage" in that we've got 3 ranged attackers. Has anyone tried to use those 3 being "protected" by Yoshio and Jin and their big ZoC's? If so, what was the outcome? Is this a viable strategy to look into or would it not work at all?
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The problem with running a lot of ranged is that once enemies make it into B2B, theyre immune. I normally run either the rifle, or the ninja. Much more and you have issues.
Also, it lacks Hiro. Hiro is nigh on mandatory, given how much ass he kicks.
Yeah. I'vee been meaning to start a thread just for "Who's your Hiro decapitated today?"
I've yet to do it. Best I've managed was a 4, which was still plenty to kill the guy I was attacking.
I want to know what the Dragon does, too. He's in the mail, hopefully to arrive any day now, but I'm wondering how he'll play in with the rest of the faction.
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Hes tough, fast. Always strikes first, and has sharp. Hes got a version of leech, and hes got two interesting ki feats, which knock people down or "pacify" them.
Hiro is a machine for killing oni, especially once they berserk, I've yet to see him fail to decapitate one when he's charged an angry Oni, no dice in defense you say? okay then...
Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
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Yeah, anytime someone can't (or just doesn't) put any dice in defense against Hiro is just asking to become a foot shorter. I've found a lot of use out of his Unblockable ability that way. It forces two dice into defense for your opponent if they even want to try and not get hacked to pieces. I've not found myself using his "___ into ____" abilities. They've been handy every now and again, but they're so random it's hard to justify spending Ki on them
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The problem with ___ into ___ is that they cost ki and arent unblockable strike. It really is the kingmaker.
In terms of ___ into ___ though, the benefit of them is that you can roll your entire pool as one stat, to get a good result into the other.
Eg. To get a good attack off, Roll 4 defence, and so long as it doesnt get you hurt, switch the best to attack. To get a good defence, roll all 4 attack, and switch the best over where needed.
But, as said, its not "huzzah, I take your skull." so whats the point in wasting the ki unless hiro is really in trouble?
ps. Parry is worthless.
AiD and DiA don't work as both the highest attack and then the same dice be used for defence and visa versa. So if I rolled 6,5,2 the result would be 6 in attack and 5 in defence not 6 and 6.
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
I was aware.
My example was that to only put 1 dice in defence is running the risk of a low roll, whereas to put all in attack and move one to defence if needed is nice.
However its not "unblockable decapitate" nice...
Yeah, Unblockable could almost be simply "Opponent loses one CP" flat-out, unless your opponent has initiative and tries to just go all-attack anyway to maybe kill Hiro before Hiro goes and cuts off the other guy's head.
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Woot! My latest set of toys just came in! I've now got my Mizuchi dragon and Daisuke! Yay!
So looking him over, Mizuchi has a lot going for him. He's got good CP, faster-than-average speed (and can Ki-pump it), good Ki (though no Strong Mind to go with it to put him over-the-top), good wounds (more than anyone else in the faction), and his main thing, I think, is Lightning Reflexes, meaning he always attacks first. He can also half-leech (that is, leech, but only gets half Ki from it), to power all the stuff he can potentially do.
HOWEVER... Hiro still decapitates and I would say even more importantly, has his *-trigger.
What say ye, oh 3-4 other people who look at this forum? Which is better?
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Overall a bit similar to me. Both kill my Bakemono like flies, when it comes to Oni, Hiro can onestrike them and the dragon twostrikes them in general. As a Wave player, i hate both...
But its much easier to block Hiros attack lines with cheap models than the dragon ones, which can get a 15 inch charge ignoring models and terrain if i remember correctly.
Not quite, a Charge action requires LoS.
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
Hmm... I was going to say something about medium-bases seeing each other fairly easily, until I re-read the LOS rules and saw exactly how restricted they were. Seems odd an Oni can hide behind a Goblin (or a gorilla behind a little girl, or a guy on a turtle behind a macaque), but whatchagonnado? I'll have my dragon hide behind a man, then, I guess.
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Sure. You cant charge something behind mountains, but if you have a small gap of LOS or a bigger charge target visible behind small ones Mizu doesnt care about models, difficult ground terrain or ZoCs, thats what i wanted to say above. Great for eating weak key models.
So, got to use Mizumi and Daisuke for the first time tonight. Daisuke kept Hiro in the game after he got charged by a Gorilla all hopped up on blessing counters. Mizumi then went and ate Aiko, then after a couple turns, ate Master Ekusa. My opponent called it there (we weren't playing a scenario), as all they had left was Kenko and I still had both my heavy-hitters as well as Minaro hanging around for good measure.
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Rat swarms covering everyone from missile fire is a pain too... Especially lazor-hooker who can target your model with her feat with no screening, but can be screened in return by the miniscule buggers...
Hmm... anyway...
So, we currently have a limited selection, as the game is new, but what sort of other pieces would you like for the game?
I'd like some more stuff to compliment Ashigaru, as it seems to be where the faction's heart is going to lay. I like the addition of Mizumi, as it brings some fantasy elements to the faction that had, previously, totally lacked in them (everyone else has goblins, ghosts and/or elemental magic while we were just "the soldier-dudes").
Alternately:
We tend to play 35-Rice games around here (it's the size of the starter). Do you feel it's a good idea to have both Mizumi and Hiro in the same force? Is it putting too many eggs in one (well, two) baskets, or do you think the two hold up well enough with their abilities on their own that they can take on forces that greatly outnumber them?
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In our games especially Hiro doenst care about outnumbering. Hiro vs 4 Bakemono, some turn later 6 Bakemono dead and Hiro slightly scratched.
I played games with double oni (similar point value) and the performance was low. But this seems to be an Oni problem, Oni suck without support. Hiro and dragon are much safer to use even in defense (enough AD, not cumbersome and +x strenght weapons. Try to beat the dragon with low point models like Bakemono, no chance, they die alltogether.
So long you add the healer to both it may work. A low bodycount lists suffers more from bad luck of course.
I think the issue with having both Hiro and Mizumi in a 35 Rice force is the same as a wave player throwing everything into Oni- less activations, sure you gain pass tokens but when objectives are on the line those 3 extra ashigaru (I know that's 15 rice not mizumi's 14) give you 6 extra opportunities to turn idols, catch kamis, place offerings or just get in the way, makes a huge difference especially when an outnumbering enemy can throw Kairai/peasants/bakemono at your models and exhaust them in only a few activations. Now at 50/55 rice you can put hiro and the Dragon both in there, and I actually find that worrying, with a big killing machine on each flank (or guarding two out of three idols) and spare ashigaru and hanso hanging around, (move it is great for balancing outnumbering) I would be reticent to place my key models anywhere at all!
Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
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I think the issue with having both Hiro and Mizumi in a 35 Rice force is the same as a wave player throwing everything into Oni- less activations, sure you gain pass tokens but when objectives are on the line those 3 extra ashigaru (I know that's 15 rice not mizumi's 14) give you 6 extra opportunities to turn idols, catch kamis, place offerings or just get in the way, makes a huge difference especially when an outnumbering enemy can throw Kairai/peasants/bakemono at your models and exhaust them in only a few activations. Now at 50/55 rice you can put hiro and the Dragon both in there, and I actually find that worrying, with a big killing machine on each flank (or guarding two out of three idols) and spare ashigaru and hanso hanging around, (move it is great for balancing outnumbering) I would be reticent to place my key models anywhere at all!
Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
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Its entirely correct what is said here: Activations are VERY VERY important.
Consider that for 15 points you can have a dragon/oni. and that for 2 points, your opponent can tie him down for a full round without fail.
I tolerate hiro's points because unblockable strike is the widowmaker. He *will* make it back by savaging down two models in the course of the game. I'm not sure the dragon will. I know an Oni won't.
To compare: Two peasants for 10 points. A dragon for 14. Two of the ashigaru running in will both be fight 4, with twice the activations, and the dragon will only be fight 3 because he's outnumbered, and will drop to fight 2 once he's exhausted. Not good odds for him.
Very good points, Greeny. My scope is skewed because my group (well, me and the other player that currently has figs. Others are pending) only play "kill the other dude's dudes" and so that tempers my view. We've been playing that way just to get a hold of the rules. Scenarios I hope to bring in within a week or so, and that'll change how we play dramatically.
I am with cain on how Mizumi and Hiro can basically work for themselves much of the time.
Which reminds me, I found a good use for Defense into Attack. I've been trying, when attacked, putting all dice into Defense, but also using DiA. That gives me all 4 dice to defend with, then, after I see the roll (and possibly more importantly, the defense die/dice of my opponent), I can choose to swap out or not. For the price of 2 Ki, basically it lets me go "All Defense" but still worries my opponent to put a die of their own into Defense. I haven't found the reverse to be that useful, though (going All Attack then swapping one out to defend).
Also, I found something almost a little funny the other day. I was looking up Large and all it does (outside of a Tsunami going by) is gives you -1 CP for Ranged Defense, but Lightning Reflexes (1) gives you a die. So it's a wash. Ok, so it's not "laugh out loud, splitting my sides" funny, but I found it humorous.
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Yep, spot on. The scenarios change most games dramatically, but Bushido more than, most I think, because of the resource management aspect of activations.
Ps. I just emailed you about TGN.
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But compare hiro by himself, to hiro with an ashigaru, who can tire the opponent out first, leaving an exhausted, outnumbered oppoent, who's losing 2 CP, and will run a huge risk of losing their head...
Yeah. That's the sort of balance questions (not game-balance, but army-building-balance) I'm looking to answer. In this game, with themechanics as they are, and scenarios as they're designed, is it better to have several "hard points" or a broader group of "softer points."
The combat system, in one way, favors hard points. More dice is good, and even Exhausted, Hiro and Mizuchi have a CP equivalent of many models, plus low "buy-up" costs in Ki if they want. Mizuchi, especially, with Lightning Reflexes, can take out lower-cost enemies one-by-one as they try and make their way in (+1 STR and Sharp really come into play there).
But again, the other side of the coin is you don't have as many activations to do things like turn idols or place gifts. And you're going to end up getting attacked and attacked again, relying on dice to carry you through. It can happen, but there's always a chance for that "all-1s roll" that really fouls you over.
Obviously, this can go on a scenario-by-scenario and opponent-by-opponent basis. Scenarios where you're trying to get into the enemy DZ may benefit from you having a couple stronger guys that just go there and camp, daring the enemy to get you out. But something like Idols where you have to be able to turn them regularly, you may want more guys out there. Against something like Temple, who probably will have a smaller model count like us, you can go more hard-points. Wave, who will likely have a dozen guys on the table, you may want more dudes. But conversely, you may want to try and swamp the Temple guy, while the Wave breaks against your Hiro and Mizumi just because they, individually, are pretty terrible and die pretty easily.
What say ye?
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Hmm... the site down-age seems to have killed the conversation better than Hiro attacking Aiko. *rustles everyone back up to chat more*
Though personally, I've not been able to play for 3 weeks. The school year's ending and a Master's degree demands lots of paper-writing. I've had 75 pages of typing to do these weeks and have had to miss out on gaming nights because of it. But it's almost over and hope to get back to the table this next week at some point.
There are some people that call me... Polar_Bear
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That is one part of the educational system I do no miss.
To get back on topic: Has anyone found any good combos for using with Minuro? At the moment I've been running him off by himself taking potshots from mid range and hoping for the best.
I've considered teaming him up with Bikou as a mobile ranged platform, but at the moment she's helping Hiro remove heads and that seems a better use of her abilities.
Mikio and Minuro made a great combination in two of the demo games I ran, his ability to move interposing models out of the way and even knock the target down made Minuro quite deadly, twice minuro was able to target really key enemies (The Geisha and Aiko) after Mikio moved their blocking models aside with a distinct lack of manners..
Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
(avatar from http://www.sillof.com/C-samuraiwars.htm)
Hopefully I'll at least be able to demo the game tonight when I make my triumphant return to game night at the LGS. Also, I'll get to start painting my models this next week. Can't wait for that.
I need to sell off some other gaming systems I'm not using anymore so I can finish up getting the rest of the faction to use as well.
There are some people that call me... Polar_Bear
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Woo! TWO demo games were had yesterday! WOO!
With any luck, with time, those will turn into two new players. We'll just have to wait and see.
There are some people that call me... Polar_Bear
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Note:
You lose the game if your attack dice never roll higher than a 3 and your opponent's wound rolls are all 6s.
Some Shisa one-shot my Mizuchi. Hiro got charged by the Gorilla and took 2 wounds, then counter-attacked and got crushed. Mikio punched at Kenko, whiffed and took an iron-fist punch to the temple.
It was rather disasterous. At that point, Daisuke just decided to see if there was any sort of paperwork back at home he could catch up on.
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So the other day I was once again playing a Temple vs Prefecture starter sets game and once more "Charge Reception" won the day. Kenko charges into Yoshio, buys up to 5 dice. Yoshio's just got his 3. I put 1 attack, 2 defense. I roll. My attack is a 6. My opponent rolled 2 defense, 3 attack. His two defense dice were 1,1. I rolled my wound and rolled a 5.
So again, someone charges into either Jin's or Yoshio's pike with their face.
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Lots of discussion going on (never a bad thing), but what are the real pros and cons of each model?
I'm new to Bushido (think that's becoming my catchphrase) and have a starter set on my modeling area in the process of being cleaned and glued together.
I also have Matsu, Daiskue, the Dragon and that new girl ordered (Daisuke and Matsu taking their time while the Dragon and new girl I only just decided to order from the official site).
I bought the new girl because I like the model, but what does she do? From her description she sounds like a bodyguard of some sort.
Also known as Astraeos on Warseer!
I've yet to see what the new girl does. I'm saving up my orders to do them all at once later on, as shipping "across the pond" can get pricy. I'm really interested to see what it is, but will have to wait until they eventually post the stats online.
As for the others, I love the hell out of Mizuchi (the dragon). It's the model that cemented me playing the game, and so I use him whenever possible (though to be fair, that's not that often. Certainly not as much as I'd like). The only trouble is that it's a lot of rice, so putting it in a force limits what else you can take. I've taken him and Hiro a couple times, but always wished I'd had some more models on the field to go along with them.
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Sounds like it's best to choose one or the other when it comes to those two. Although Hiro is my favourite model from the starter and I'd probably wanna play the dragon loads too!
Also known as Astraeos on Warseer!
Well, seeing as the game is so new, there really aren't that many options available to an army at the moment. Models basically trade out for one-another on a 1-1 basis. You sort of have the option to go the Ashigaru route or the not-Ashigaru route... or there's the middle.
I personally like having Yoshio and Jin out there as they can block off a lot of real eastate with their big ZoC's and team up well, getting 4 dice if they're both in the same melee. Beyond that, I like Mizuchi, because he's the dragon. Daisuke can keep people healed up fairly effectively. From there, it's just filling out the last of the rice. My personal motto is "play the figs you want to play." So that's basically what I do.
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I got everything for the Prefecture now apart from Bikou and Mikio (and the hornblower but we haven't even seen the model yet!).
Tenshi is a bodguard type, has some special ability where you nominate who she's guarding at the start of the game. Are we allowed to reveal the stats and stuff here?
Also known as Astraeos on Warseer!
We post the cards of models when the new model is released, and although its fine to discuss models stats/abilities for models whos cards are on the site, we would ask people not to mention specifics of models whos cards areant up. People only need to wait two months anyway.
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
Ok, fair enough.
Also known as Astraeos on Warseer!
You type that like 2 months is just nothing. :p
I nearly tore my hair out waiting to see what Mizuchi did. o,O
Anyway... I've been doing a lot of demos lately, and so the box-set force vs. the Temple force I've had a lot of experience with. Armor is pretty huge. When most fights come down to SL 0-2, it takes a 6 on SL 0 to even do 1 wound to any of my guys. Kenko can boost his STR, but without a really lucky roll on an attack, I'm usually just fine. I've found I tend to put more dice into attack, even when I don't have attack priority. I've even gone so far that if I just get 1 die, I might still put it into attack, just to try and deal some damage to my opponent, since the chances of outright killing one of my guys is pretty low.
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