So, a bit of a fiddly one came up on my local club's board after a game last night regarding Master Ekusa.
To get his "Unique Effect" 3-inch tortoise and likewise his Channel/Leach abilities he has to "Activate".
Now, he has no "Move Statistic" and the "Unique Effect" description specificallty states the move is not a "Move Action" so it's entirely plausible to belive he can't phyisaclly carry out a "Move Action". This put's him in a position where, however rare, there are situations where he can't carry out any "Actions".
If he can't do any actions then can he be classed as activated to trigger the three things mentioned above?
I suppose this all revolves around the 0-inch move that all models can do to effectively pass (not Pass in game terms) at the cost of an action. If you have no move can you still do this? It could be rectified if Master Ekusa was given a move stat of 0 with no potental to increase and still retain the "Unique Effect". I suppose 0* rather than just *.
I can see the arguement for both sides and I freely admit its a bit rules lawyer-y (I'm a Ro-Kan payer by the way, so it's a potential negative to me rather than a nasty trick) but I'd appriciate a clarification.
Thanks in advance,
Dom Booth
aim! that's what I do to pass anyway:) my kairai aim a tremendous amount to say they carry no ranged weapons whatsoever, I guess they may eventually say a model must have a ranged weapon to perform an aim but until then feel free to have master Ekusa peer intently at someone in a querulous way:) (this question could still do with a proper answer mind, I think there is an argument for some sort of 'wait' action, that just tires/exhausts the model with no other actions taken)
Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
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I can't see why he cannot take a Move action really.
He moves his Move statistic, i.e. 0", the turtle walks 3", and that's it.
Nothing says you have to have a Move statistic to be able to move.
I follow the rules of bushido. I am a bushi.
Thanks for the prompt resposes guys.
I thought about this. You have to admit it's a pretty ugly fix and there are potentially situations when you can't aim either, like no LoS to anything (Master Ekusa....in a shed!)
I agree with you in principal and this is how we played it, but his move isn't 0 it's *. You can't do a Ranged Attack if you have < as your stat. Where as, and we're slipping in to hypothetical again, if you had a 0 you could do a ranged stike as the "Always get's one dice" mechanic kicks in.
Again, I absolutely admit it's a semantics over logic, but I think it could use a clarification.
Cheers,
Dom
I've come across this several times and honestly, I just tire/exhaust him without really even declaring anything. Just sort of a "and... umm... he doesn't have anything to do, so he activates and tires." sort of thing. I realize that's horrendous when it comes to actual rules and what's written, but it's just what goes on.
Hmm... I guess it's something where he'll either get to move 0" or I guess they could just create a "hold" simple action where your model just stands there, really.
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found a few bits here and there, the only answer i can get for the movement is question 8 here-
http://www.bushido-thegame.com/forum/necra-chi-136-0
where it states he cannot declare a move action (which now i come to think of it makes his turtle incredibly good at avoiding Tra-pengs traps) most of the time every opponent I've played uses Polar_Bears 'ummm' technique if they don't aim, (and yes I agree it's massively ugly, but it's currently all we have) though I find it ironic that in a game where a model will do 12 things at the most (barring crazy feats) we are discussing how we would like to not do one sometimes:)
Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
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Ok, my understanding thusfar is that free active traits do not require an activation from the existing model.
The "active" refers to the player, and not the model. In other words, you can use channel or leech at any time during another temple model's activation and Ekusa does not need to be active for this. Furthermore it does not activate him. (Presumably this means that the active model is still active during the free action of the other model).
The special turtle ability states clearly that it DOES require the model to activate.
Therefore it's not possible to use Channel or Leech in order to take advantage of multiple uses of Ekusa's turle ability.
(When I first read the ability that's how I interpreted it due to the short story "Last Stand" where Ekusa appears at Kenko and Yumi's destination first, and they wonder how he got there so fast).
I've also found the wording in the rulesbook a little ambiguous: it states that "When a model is activated it may attempt a Simple action or a Complex action."
I don't know if "may" is an intentional or a casual wording here. So far we have been playing it as "MUST" take either a simple or complex action. Otherwise this is a bit of a loophole: There's nothing that states you can't activate Ekusa, use a free action and his move ability (neither of which tires him) and do five circits of the board.
In other words, I haven't found anything in the rules which specifically stops you from activating a model, performing a free action (thus not tiring it) and moving on to the next model. As mentioned, we've been playing it as though in order to activate a model you MUST perform either a simple or complex action.
So, specific questions:
1. Is there any functional difference between free active traits and free active actions.
2. does the use of a trait count as an action (free or otherwise)?
3. When activating a model does one HAVE to make a simple or complex action, and not simply a free action?
4. Is it allowed to activate a model and perform a simple action of "move" even though you have no move stat, or "aim".
5. Can we have a specific statement of what MUST be done in order to legally activate a model?
Agree with everything you say here, apart from the first Channel/Leach bit. I think you're getting a touch tied up between Traits and Feats. Both Channel and Leach are Traits that can be performed by any model (that has the Trait)"When they (the model with the trait) are active". So you couldn't Channel or Leach when the model with the Traits ISN'T active.
Obviously, I could be wrong!
Intrested to see the ruling on this.
Cheers,
Dom
1. There are no Free/active traits. There are traits which you use when that model is Active ie performing a simple or Complex action.
2. No, you use Traits when dictated in the traits description, usually whilst it is the Active model meaning it is performing a Simple or Complex action.
3. Yes, when you select a model to activate it must perform a Simple or complex action.
4. Yes, ignore the thread where it prohibits Ekusa declaring a move action, his Move should be 0.
5. Yes, very soon the V2 rules are nearly ready for public comsumption.
@boothdom. You are correct the model needs to be Active to use Channel and/or Leech, ie performing a Simple or Complex action.
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."
Ah, well that's clarified a LOT! :D thanks!
Your welcome,
"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."