Matsu, pretty and hard to use

13 posts / 0 new
Last post
Malhorme
Malhorme's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 37 min ago
Approved
Joined: 08/12/2011 - 07:29
Posts: 371
Matsu, pretty and hard to use

Hello,

I guess i would need some tips with this lady.
Ok, i find her to be just awesome. But in terms of playing, i just can't use her.

She really has poor stats. 1 cp, normal walk, normal ki, not much life. The regular bolt is quite short, and triger less.

Question, does she loss 1cp if she moves before shooting? I would say yes...
And i don't get the feats.
Force manipu is ok, improves the bolt, but quite expensive, so you wont use it too often!
Time shift is close to useless.
It is a single and cost ki, and moves 2"
Its good to disengage, but, to be able to disengage means your still alive. With 1 cp, she hardly survives a charge a little though...

Having to be active and spending an action to move only 2" seems to be quite costly for me. I would by it if it was free, or free/active, but not single.

After a few games, i just decided to stop spending 6 rices, and to use 4 rices for Daisuke Who is realy worth the money.

How do you play her?

Malhorme
Malhorme's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 37 min ago
Approved
Joined: 08/12/2011 - 07:29
Posts: 371

Hey guys? No one could help me with the girl?

cain
cain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 49 min ago
Approved
Joined: 07/26/2011 - 10:49
Posts: 161

Shes the only ranged attacker ingame without need for reloading. No model can shoot twice per turn.

And she got either good range, or +strength. Pushing/slamming is situational, but powerful in the right circumstances. She gets the Ki at least for one shot per turn, or more because you dont spend Ki in the first turn normally.

Time shift is for getting out of combat without rolling. Depending on terrain you play, she could have fun too by teleporting through buildings/walls.

In our game her survibility is no question. Very quick or teleporting foes may catch her from behind, but i dont understand how she can be simply charged behind a wall of Ashigaru steel.

 

 

Greeny
Greeny's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 49 min ago
Retainer
Joined: 10/26/2011 - 22:35
Posts: 685

taken on her own she is certainly one of the weakest models in the prefecture, especially when Daisuke is so much cheaper, however Cain has some good points-

  • two shots a turn when in range, good for whittling points of low damage creatures.
  • the only ranged push/slam attack in the game (great for clearing charge lanes and getting Minuro LoS)
  • the teleport allows auto disengage, and I've seen it used brilliantly to teleport out of melee, land behind someone to threaten their rear after another model engages their front, once the enemy has lost dice from outnumbered, exhausted and surprised even she can be a threat.  

however all of these require another model to best take advantage of it, she needs ashigaru to hide behind, MInuro to take shots at targets she has revealed, combat models to engage the enemy she has teleported away from. She is at best a good support model for a solid core, would I take her at 35 rice? probably not, at 50+ she can be good, especially with the Prefecture artillery line (Minuro, Bikou, Matsu behind 2 Ashigaru, Hiro and Hanso)

Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
(avatar from http://www.sillof.com/C-samuraiwars.htm)

Malhorme
Malhorme's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 37 min ago
Approved
Joined: 08/12/2011 - 07:29
Posts: 371

Ok, more or less what i was coming to.
I lost her twice becauqe of the foxy lady, but i had isolated her a little to be able to get good shots.

I still belive time shift is crap, because of her low survival chance in BtB.

Thanks for the advice guys, i'll try not to loss her at turn two next time!

zfairborn
zfairborn's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Approved
Joined: 08/14/2012 - 06:09
Posts: 22

 

At first glance I didn't like Matsu much (I'm still trying to ID exactly what makes the Prefecture appealing compared to the other forces), but in examining her to explain why she's good she actually has a few perks that some people might not realize. Lets see if I can enlighten your mind to the possibilities of what the Dragon's twin sister can offer:

1) Ranged attacks ignore Fear. Many people complain fear is overpowered (and, in some cases, it can be) but they often overlook this. Provided Matsu is outside enemy melee range, she can shoot at any target no matter how scary they are without needing to check if she rolls to do it.

2) She doesn't reload. Lots of people have mentioned this, but I feel this needs to be elaborated on its:

2a) Shoot anyone who ran - Shoot them Twice!. Provided they are within range you'll be rolling 3 dice to their 2 dice (3-dice at long range minus -1 for running).

2b) She can Aim. While other ranged fighters often take their time between shots readying the next shot, Matsu can take her time to focus her fire. Give up her first action to pick a target, then shoot the target with 4-dice the following action. This leads to another point that I think needs to be considered:

3) Run and Aim. These really should be Matsu's actions on the first turn, and both should occur after her entire faction has moved. The 6" will get her into a better position to shoot, and Aim will increase her CL. Now some may argue here "but she's at -2 dice for moving and running! The +1 dice doesn't compensate for that!!". Well you're wrong. Since she Aimed she will get +1 to her ranged attack if her ranged attack is the next action she takes. And since she'll be shooting as her first action in the following turn, she won't suffer the movement penalties she gained in the previous turn (i.e.: at the start of the next turn, she attacks with 4-dice VS whatever the target is rolling).

If you don't believe me, check the rules. There is nothing on Aim that says the +1 bonus ends at the end of the turn. It clearly state it applies provided the following action she takes is to make a ranged attack.

4) Pick your Shots. Matsu is an opportunist and you need to play her as such. She needs to wait until the enemy is tied up with your main forces before she moves to the side and opens fire from there. Ideally you want to shoot the large targets everytime (they will only ever have 2-dice in defense to you 3 on attack). You also want to try and encourage your enemy to turn their backs on you to give her the Surprise Bonus (they will suffer -1 to their defense).

Try stacking as much penalty on your opponent as possible. If you can (somehow) attack a Large target in the back (Surprise) within short-range, you will be rolling 5 attack dice to their 1!! Plus you won't need to suffer about taking damage (as its a ranged attack - not a melee exchange).

5) Use her with the Sumo!! Mikio is focused on putting opponents on the ground (prone). Shooting a Prone target gives the target -1 to their defense roll. He's also brutishly tough with 7 wounds making him great for keeping enemies occupied. Have Mikio spend 2-Ki to gain "Offensive Koshinage Throw" (Trigger 2) just as he moves to take on a target that has already acted. Commit everything to attack and hope your opponent either a) fails their defense or b) places no dice in offense. If you pass, the target will be exhausted (having already acted once prior the attack), and be on his back - making it a very tempting Target for Mikio to attack as soon as she can. Furthermore, if the target spends an action to get back up (which they likely will) Mikio will be nearby to put them back down (which he likely will).

6) Time Shift is, agreeably, very circumstantial. Yet still useful. For 2-Ki you automatically disengage from melee. This is important as she is not a melee fighter. However never pull her out of combat unless the people she is fighting are in combat with one of her allies. They will keep the target occupied and let you get out where you will be in short-range to attack them. If they try to pursue her, they will need to take 2 actions to do so (first to disengage from its other attackers - the second to attack her again). In between this, she will likely be able to get off at least one shot before the target gets her (and it will be at least at 3-attack VS 1-defense; unless the attacker is small).

 

So to summarize:

- Run and Aim does not penalize you shooting the target in the next round
- If any enemy runs, shoot them!
- Maximize your debuffs on the enemy with shots of opportunity (i.e.: choose your shots)
- Play her with a Sumo (the pair together cost 13-rice)
- 2 Ki to disengage a fight and still be within short-range to attack your attacker, who will be occupied by the Sumo... worth it!

cain
cain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 49 min ago
Approved
Joined: 07/26/2011 - 10:49
Posts: 161

There is nothing on Aim that says the +1 bonus ends at the end of the turn.

But it does, i asked this some time before in the rules forum.

 

zfairborn
zfairborn's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Approved
Joined: 08/14/2012 - 06:09
Posts: 22

I better check that, as the living rule-book says if her next action is a ranged attack. Doesn't say the action must be taken in that same turn.

 

Another point I should make though (which I've just discovered with further reasearch) is use her with Tenshi the Prefecture Monk. The Bodygaurd makes the pair VERY dangerous! Just keep Tenshi near Matsu (the 3" requirement) and they become very hard to deal with.

For example, your enemy chooses to attack Matsu. Tenshi trades places with Matsu and takes the attack, moving Matsu safely away and yet still within Short Range for her Ranged attacks on the target that rushed her. In the following activation, have Matsu make a Ranged attack to move (if possible) to get a shot at the rear arc of the enemy to take them by surprise. This will result in a 3-attack VS 1-defense ranged dice-pool (3-dice normally, -1 for moving, +1 for attacking a target in the back/ surprise attack). Get lucky on the enemy botching their defense and OUCH! Thats going to hurt!

Your enemy may try to avoid this by attacking Tenshi instead. Thats fine. Matsu is then free to, again, move into the back arc of the enemy and attack them there.

If your enemy is foolish enough to leave Matsu unengaged there the following turn, she will attack the target with 4-dice vs their 1-dice in defense.

Should the enemy disengage to attack Matsu, and successfully disenage, chances are Tenshi will either lock them back in Melee as the next action, or Matsu will back off 4" and shoot as her next action (which will be at 2-dice on attack VS 1-dice on defense, given the target will still be in short-range). And, unless the target has 5+" of movement, they won't be able to catch her as she falls back from melee range.

 

GCT Master T
GCT Master T's picture
Online
Last seen: 14 min 50 sec ago
Staff
Joined: 04/12/2011 - 19:18
Posts: 1233

In the current version of the rules you cant target models in BtB with a friendly model with a Ranged Attack.  

"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."

Joueur 1156
Joueur 1156's picture
Online
Last seen: 2 min 54 sec ago
Approved
Joined: 07/19/2012 - 08:30
Posts: 125

And you also assume that matsu's ennemy is alone. If he's not, she'll be engaged and suffer a lot of pain with her lonely 1 CP.

zfairborn
zfairborn's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Approved
Joined: 08/14/2012 - 06:09
Posts: 22

Well then I'm out. For 6-rice I can't see how she can be worth her cost if all these things are in play against her.

Guess we'll have to wait until some more Prefecture models come out to help support her better. Alternatively, if "Time Shift" became a Free/Active ability - she would quickly become a bit more useful (i.e.: if she starts an activation in melee, she can spend 2-Ki to get out of Melee and still be in short-range to attack her attacker with great accuracy). Even then, with the rule that you cannot shoot a target that is fighting one of your allies, Matsu is basically going from early-game artilery to objective-seeker mid-to-late game.

I guess for 6-rice that is somewhat worth it, but even then - I'm starting to think the girl needs more help.

 

Greeny
Greeny's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 49 min ago
Retainer
Joined: 10/26/2011 - 22:35
Posts: 685

@Zfairborn- don't give up yet, I think some of your  point's (shoot twice, ignore fear, no reloads etc) still stand myself, and one misconstrued rule doesnt erase the fact that you have come up with some cracking uses for her.

For me she seems fine for 6 rice, she's difficult to use, but part of what I love about this game is that the tactics you use in the game are far more more important than hours spent scheming over a hot army list. she is very situational, but then almost all low rice cost models are in this game, characters with one good ability that struggle outside their comfort zone, or mediocre models that don't excel or suck in any one area. it's only when you start getting to 8+ rice that you see the multi feat, highly flexible hard hitters appear.,

put her against Koji (5 Rice), Hotaru (7 Rice), Wu- Zang (7 Rice), Tra-peng (5 Rice),  The Kairai Ashigaru (5 Rice) or Gengo (5 Rice) and she looks pretty good, they are all very situational models who rarely lay waste to all before them, in fact if most of those (The Cult pair being the exception) could take two plasma balls in the face and live I 'd be shocked. That said, this game isn't a ranged combat oriented game, so I dont expect any missile attack to do an awful lot, regardless of it's source. (exluding those evil Bakemono archers I met at the North kingdoms event, they have their own micro-universe)

also I think when objectives are on the line she has a part to play- if she hangs around within 3" of an objective she can always Time shift out of a melee, into B2B with the objective forcing the enemy to use an action engaging her or she'll just turn it with her second action- no-one else in the prefecture has that freedom of movement. I should also add how irritating being slammed off an Idol you just moved onto in turn 6 is...

Never tell me the odds: Han Solo;)
(avatar from http://www.sillof.com/C-samuraiwars.htm)

zfairborn
zfairborn's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Approved
Joined: 08/14/2012 - 06:09
Posts: 22

@Greeny - guess you got a point there. I was just finding it hard to justify her from what I could see (I don't play prefecture myself, but feel I've got a very decent grasp of the rules to be able to look over a character and get a decent idea of what they do) and it was frustating :D

That being said you make an excellent point that this game is melee and objective focused. Its not about meat-grinding your opponent to secure a victory. It is about tactics in-game as much as it can involve planning pre-game (i.e.: Matsu with Mikio definately have some good synergy going on - he throws them, she shoots them. Sort of a "clay-pigeon game" :D ). Even I can forget that at times when my bloodlust swells (which is odd given my main faction is the Temple! I need to meditate more)

Cheers on the pointers. I'll certainly keep them in mind :)